Table of Contents

Charity's Underwater Forum


[Chat] Charity: ok, UNDERWATER discussion in ooc auditorium is starting now, feel free to drop in in the middle if you can't get here now but are interested

Vengeance says, 'You shouldn't hafta sustain breath to go under water, but you should lose hp as you run outta breath =P.'

Charity says, 'That's one of the things that will change somewhat, hopefully.' Vengeance nods solemnly.

Charity says, 'Ok, i'd like to start by explaining just a bit about my area, and the guidelines that we'll have to follow for this brainstorming session.'

Charity says, 'I'm doing a series of underwater reefs, one full area in the industrial South Seas (which will replace the current trans island).'

Charity says, 'And then a 30 or so room expansion to the octopus's area in Tortuga, and another 50 rooms of the Red Sea in ancient.'

Charity says, 'So... 90% of French Polynesia will be underwater, and ALL of the medieval expansion and the Red Sea will be.'

Lethargio says, 'Nooooooo.'

Lethargio says, 'I like the trans island.'

Charity says, 'The new trans won't make you wait for the curio to be open though.'

Lethargio says, 'Oh ok then.'

Karida says, 'The great barrier reef?'

Charity shakes her head.

Straitos says, 'Oooh an octopus area?'

Charity says, 'Not that far south, the French Polynesian islands.'

Magius says, 'Your adding 50 rooms to the red sea?'

Charity says to Magius, 'It won't take any longer to walk to india or arabia, you'll just be able to go down from the red sea room itself.'

Straitos chuckles politely.

Magius says, 'Oh.'

Magius says, 'Good show.'

Charity says, 'Anyhow, with so much underwater stuff planned, i started looking at how things work underwater, and went ICK.'

Charity giggles.

Charity says, 'Given that the coders have lots of other stuff to do, we can't ask for miracles, and we can't ask for a major overhaul.'

Tad says to Charity, 'Sure ya can, I just reserve the right to snicker nastily.'

Karida grins evilly at Tad.. wonder what she's thinking...

Charity says, 'So the purpose of this talk is first, for me to see what you guys think of the ideas i already have, and second, to see if you've got other or better ideas =)'

Lethargio says to Charity, 'Make it more easier to go underwater, maybe scuba gear or submarines, or sustain breath vials sold at stores or something.'

Rummy says to Lethargio, 'Yea, submarines! :P.'

Magius says, 'Those won't be invented for a 30 years at least.'

Toad says, 'Im made for water.'

Joachim says, 'How about making londoners able sustain breath?'

Rummy nods his agreement with Joachim.

Lethargio says, 'What are you talking about, they used submarines in WW1.'

Toad says, 'I think you should have the titanic.'

Magius says, 'A sustained breath vial sounds good.'

Vengeance says, 'They had subs before ww1, they weren't exactly safe, but they were there =P.'

Airar says, 'Ooh, Titanic would be a good underwater area proposal.'

Kervorkian says, 'How about letting Charity say her piece.'

Straitos nods his agreement with Magius.

Charity says, 'Scuba gear will be in the industrial area. If you're really determined, you can transport it to other areas as well.'

Charity says, 'But you can't carry a boat and a vehicle both.'

Charity grins evilly.

Lethargio says, 'Hmm its sounds good though.'

Charity says, 'A sustained breath vial is one of the ideas i've seen, but i don't know yet if i'll be able to fit it in anywhere.'

Charity says, 'Anyhow, if i can present some of the ideas tad and i have already agreed are reasonable...'

Lethargio says to Charity, 'Either the scuba or the vial, one or the other would do good.'

Magius says, 'Sell it at the curio! They sell everything else.'

Magius says, 'Or maybe DOuban, he has lot's of different stuff.'

Rummy says, 'Or in the druid treehouse in tara, with all the other vials :P'

Magius says, 'Oh I got it a sustained breath scroll.'

Magius says, 'Anyone can use scrolls.'

Charity says, 'Ok, First assumption: you have to be able to fight underwater. so we toss realism out the window where ordinary combat is concerned, and don't change it.'

Toad says, 'Okie and we'd have to be able to cast.'

Lethargio says, 'Flame magics should be suppressed underwater.'

Charity says, 'Right, you have to be able to cast, because there are several water-only magics.'

Toad says, 'And no fire.'

Charity nods her agreement with Lethargio.

Magius says, 'I know that, but I don't think people wanna sit around waiting for a mage to get them underwater.'

Magius says, 'I bet I could immolate underwater.'

Charity says, 'Mostly the fire spells are disabled, but there are oddballs that it would be nice to fix, like being able to make illusions underwater.'

Lethargio nods his agreement with Magius.

Toad says, 'Which would make underwater very chalenging to a mage, i like this idea.'

Magius shakes his head.

Vengeance says, 'Anybody should be able to go under water without sustained breath, but they should lose hp if they try & stay down long.'

Magius says, 'I got a level 25 spell exactly as good as Immolate for underwater use.'

Rummy says to Vengeance, 'Heh just like quake!'

Straitos nods his agreement with Vengeance.

Toad says, 'Would that be hard to code?'

Tad says to Toad, 'Would what be hard?'

Vengeance says, 'A no agni flag.'

Magius says, 'Vina udan mrti is just as good as Immolate anyways.'

Tad says to Vengeance, 'Its already handled in a different way. Ever tried to cast a flamestrike underwater?'

Vengeance says to Tad, 'I dont have a mage with mrti =P'

Magius says, 'So stop bagging on us poor mages.'

Vengeance says, 'Er...agni.'

Charity says, 'Ok, so we agree ordinary combat and chanting stays the same?'

Toad looks up into the sky and ponders.

Magius says, 'It kinda has to because like you said we can't have a overhaul for water.'

Machine nods solemnly.

Lethargio says, 'I guess so.'

Charity says, 'Guns are already disabled underwater, but bows aren't. That means bows could look really funny... but it also makes spear guns possible.'

Lethargio says, 'Spear guns...they should do a lot of damage then.'

Machine says, 'Fire based spells should be reduced.'

Magius says, 'Heck, I will just use watery death.'

Charity says, 'So i wasn't going to ask for any changes to guns either.'

Tad says to Machine, 'They already don't work at all.'

Machine says, 'Dont go underwater much.'

Toad says, 'I think fire spell should be disabled underwater.'

Tad says to Toad, 'It already is.'

Magius says, 'There is are spells equivilant to immolate and lava flow for underwater.'

Charity says, 'Even though chanting will work, i think that say and talk should be disabled. You could still grouptell or tell though.'

Charity says, 'Opinions on that?'

Joachim says, 'Why bother?'

Airar says, 'I don't want to lose say underwater - another nice for realism put poor for gameplay thingie.'

Charity says, 'And i think there shoud be an abyss or something for the people with alot of hp, assuming we go with Vengeances' idea of breathing.'

Charity says, 'Because if you are going around solo, and you encounter another player going around solo, you shouldn't be able to sit in the room and say things to each other.'

Tad says, 'That depends.'

Tad says, 'Are you both in scuba gear?'

Joachim says, 'If you aren' disabling tell...'

Vengeance says, 'They could use emotes instead of talk.'

Joachim or emote.

Charity says, 'Exactly.. and that would be much more realistic i think.'

Vengeance tickles Charity - hee hee hee!

Tad says, 'If its old fashioned, with helmets, you can easily talk to each other by puttin your helmets together, I would think.'

Charity says, 'Tell and grouptell are sort of telepathic thingies.'

Magius says, 'Does the sustained breath skill actually work?'

Tad nods his agreement with Magius.

Charity nods solemnly.

Kervorkian nods his agreement with Magius.

Charity says, 'The messages are funky, and that's a small fix on my list.'

Lethargio says, 'I wouldn't mind if they disabled say and yells underwater.'

Kervorkian says, 'Or warcry?'

Airar says, 'Yeah, disabling warcry would be cool.'

Charity says, 'Skills are a separate issue, i'll get to that.'

Tad giggles at Charity.

Magius says, 'Heck, Mages dont have the practices to waste on sustained breath thats why we have the spells, and the snipers and fighters can just use the skill...'

Joachim rushes at you screaming 'GLUB'~

Lethargio says, 'I can't use it.'

Magius says, 'So we dont need scuba gear or sub's or anything.'

Joachim says, 'Londoners can't get the skill.'

Charity says, 'Regarding speech, what if yell was disabled but says and talks not?'

Jeannette says, 'Not snipers from london :p'

Shiva says, 'I have sust breath, just learned it this level though.'

Shiva is 48th

Charity says, 'Ok, to put it another way... if you can still tell, gtell, and emote, is anyone violently opposed to not having say talk or yell?'

Lethargio says, 'I think it'll add more realism.'

Shiva says to Charity, 'Sound carries farther underwater tho, any chance ya could just set it to where anyone outside the room hears the muffled yell but can't make out the words?'

Kervorkian shakes his head.

Magius says, 'Emote emote says yah thats cool.'

Magius says, 'Emote instead of say and.'

Charity says to Tad, 'That's getting sorta complex, isnt it?'

Charity says to Tad, 'To alter the muffle distance on yells, i mean?'

Tad says to Charity, 'Might be able to fiddle the yell code to do that.'

Tad says, 'Dunno 'bout the distance, but could prolly make _all_ underwater yells muffled.'

Tad says, 'No matter how far you were.'

Charity nods solemnly.

Shiva nods solemnly.

Charity says, 'Ok, a possibility.'

Tad hasn't looked at that particalar code bit closely

Shiva says, 'That would be kewl.'

Charity says, 'Next big thing... you should not be able to sleep underwater (but you can meditate).'

Magius shakes his head.

Magius says, 'That's nutty.'

Tad says, 'Depends.'

Magius says, 'I cant get happy enough and block everything out in water to meditate.'

Tad says, 'Under the effects of a sustained breath _skill_, I agreee.'

Charity nods her agreement with Tad.

Tad says, 'But the spell, atm, says you stop breathing. If you're not breathing anyhow, what difference does it make?'

Charity says, 'But with scuba gear on, entirely possible.'

Lethargio says to Charity, 'It'll be sort of like a underwater boat?'

Magius says, 'Okay I have another question,'

Charity says, 'An amphibious vehicle actually, refilled with oxygen tanks.'

Lara says, 'What is this, a sunken galleon or something?'

Magius says, 'At the time this area is made, they would still have the Scuba gear with big air hoses right?'

Tad says to Lara, 'Underwater areas in general.'

Charity says, 'A tropical reef, three of them actually, in different eras.'

Lara nods solemnly.

Lethargio says to Charity, 'I hope that it doesn't require cans of gas.'

Lethargio says to Charity, 'Cars and planes really suck in that way.'

Tad says to Lethargio, 'A scuba gear would require tanks of oxygen as "fuel"'

Charity says, 'For the convenience of players, i was going to push the time up to the early 1960s (can't really tell much by the few island rooms anyhow), and by then they had (big) selfcontained units.'

Shiva says, 'I believe charity was saying oxygen tanks will substitute for gas.'

Lethargio says, 'Oh.'

Joachim says, 'Sell yhe oxygen tanks somewhere.'

Charity says, 'So yes, if you run out of oxygen and have no sustained breath skill or spell to back you up, you'll drown.'

Charity chuckles politely.

Lethargio says, 'So like, if you run out of air, then you drown, heh heh.'

Charity nods her agreement with Lethargio.

Lethargio says to Charity, 'Will it be abundant.'

Vengeance says, 'Well, is it scuba gear, or a submarine?'

Lethargio says to Charity, 'Gas for the current vehicles are hard to get, and they arn't very efficient.'

Vengeance says, 'Cuz if it's a sub, your more likely to die of lack of oxygen =P'

Frodo says, 'Or pressure.'

Charity says, 'I'm going to try balancing it so you can do a wlkthrough of the entire area once (with a bit of margin) on one tnak.'

Lethargio says to Charity, 'They only fill up 50 mvs :P.'

Charity says, 'Er tank.'

Charity says, 'Pressure is something i haven't thought of much... however there's just one more biggie on my list... sinking.'

Vengeance wrinkles his nose distastefully.

Charity says, 'The simple version would be, every tick there's a random chance that you'd sink to the room d from you (if there is one).'

Charity says, 'If you're fighting you don't sink, just if you're in a room doing nothing.'

Lethargio says to Charity, 'If you want to be more realistic, you would sink more often.'

Charity nods solemnly.

Charity says, 'But putting a random check into the tick update is a fast and easy thing to code.'

Shiva says to Charity, 'What happends if your moving when it ticks?'

Lethargio says, 'But then, it wouldn't be more fun though.'

Tad says, 'ONLY if you're carrying a buncha weight, though.'

Joachim says, 'The bends! Add the bends! :).'

Tad nods his agreement with Joachim.

Tad grins evilly at Joachim.. wonder what he's thinking...

Tad says to Joachim, 'Reading my mind.'

Charity says, 'Ok guys, how?'

Joachim says, 'Put a flag on players when they go down, if they're above that level and go up they take damage, you lose the 'deepest' flag you have every tick.'

Croaker says, 'Wouldn't have to add code, make it a random roomact.'

Vengeance says, 'Okay, if you drop an item, does it sink to the lowest room from where you dropped it over?'

Croaker says, 'Much easier, and doesn't have to occur on a tick.'

Charity says, 'Hmm ok i'll keep both those in mind. The maps are going to be fairly complicated so i'm not sure what the space will allow.'

Shiva says, 'And if it's a random room act what happens when someone is running through and it happens?'

Tad says to Shiva, 'You sank.'

Tad says to Shiva, 'Wouldn't happen if you had a boat, though.'

Croaker says, 'Using a roomact to make dropped items go to deepest area underneath that spot is easy too.'

Tad says to Shiva, 'Assuming you're on _top_ of the water.'

Vengeance says, 'Maps? Hrmm...make it a map with a thread for each depth on it?'

Charity says, 'Kaige is working on gravity.'

Vengeance says, 'It'd be a crappy way to read a map, but it'd work.'

Shiva says to Tad, 'That could easily get people lost and confused.'

Charity says, 'So i'm not asking the coders to do specific underwater item sinking that will later be covered by her stuff. i just wanted people to sink somehow =).'

Tad says to Shiva, 'Ayup, its easy to get lost and confused if you're swimming quickly carrying a heavy load.'

Tad says to Charity, 'People float, though.'

Tad sticks his tongue out at Charity! =P

Charity says, 'Not when they're wearing 50 lbs of scuba gear.'

Lethargio says to Tad, 'How heavy? Will it depend on your str/how much your carrying ratio?'

Tad nods his agreement with Charity.

Tad says to Lethargio, 'Shouldn't matter on your str, at all.'

Lethargio says, 'Ah.'

Tad says to Lethargio, 'If you carry enuff stuff that your density is greater than water, you sink.'

Shiva says, 'And how will pocket of air work?'

Lethargio nods his agreement with Tad.

Lethargio says, 'Sounds fair.'

Charity says, 'Ok guys, hang on a sec and let me tell you something we'd thought of.'

Charity says, 'Tad's talking about a benchmark figure... If you're lighter you float, if you're heavier you sink. it takes effort to do whichever one is opposite to your condition.'

Lethargio says, 'Whoa, complicated.'

Charity says, 'This sounded way cool at first, but the problem is, if it's costing a lightweight person mv every tick, in order to stay underwater, what happens when they run out of mvs? They'll be stuck near as i can see.'

Tad grins evilly at Lethargio.. wonder what he's thinking...

Tad says to Charity, 'They float?'

Vengeance says, 'Actually that doesn't follow true psyics =P something could weigh 5 tons and stay afloat forever, while something that weighed 1 pound sank like a rock.'

Shiva nods solemnly.

Charity says, 'If it can be managed so that no one gets stranded or drowns involuntarily, it'd be way cool.'

Tad says to Vengeance, 'Assuming everyone is the same volume, it does.'

Tad says, 'What I was thinking was that if you sat/rest you'd move in the direction of your flotation (sink/float).'

Shiva says, 'The way I'm looking at it is from this point of view: I'm a mage, if I cast sust breath and am going after somethin particular underwater.'

Shiva says, 'And in between the sinking I get lost meanwhile it's taking me extra moves.'

Shiva says, 'It's not going to be somewhere I go.'

Lethargio says, 'Use hunt.'

Lethargio says, 'To get out of there.'

Tad says to Shiva, 'The sinking/floating (imho) should only happen when sitting/resting.'

Tad says to Shiva, 'I.e, Not actively maintaining your position.'

Charity says, 'Or meditating.'

Tad nods his agreement with Charity.

Lethargio says to Tad, 'Sounds good.'

Tad says to Charity, 'You're still resting when meditating, I think.'

Tad says to Charity, 'Meditate is a flag, you've still got the position resting.'

Charity says, 'Oh btw, as a thank you to everyone who showed up... when this area goes in, don't let yourself sink all the way to the sea floor while resting.'

Charity mimes a crocodilefish taking a bite out of your fanny.

Tad giggles at Charity.

Jeannette smiles at Charity.

Tad giggles at Charity.

Tad says, 'No flounders nibbling at your toes?'

Charity says, 'Ok so if the sinking/floating only while resting is a good compromise?... can i have a final vote on each of yell, say, and talk?'

Jeannette rather likes it, actually... (the yell, say stuff)

Tad says to Jeannette, 'Makin it not work?'

Tad thinks if we do that, then we should do it like deafness

Jeannette nods her agreement with Tad.

Charity says to Tad, 'You can say thing sunderwater at first then grow progressively unable to talk?'

Jeannette says, 'Doesn't really stop anything and is fun for makin' underwater feel different.'

Tad says to Charity, 'The "so and so says something, but you can't make it out" message.'

Charity says, 'Ah, ok was thinking of the other part of deafness.'

Charity chuckles politely.

Joachim says, 'Make talking under water make you run out of air sooner :).'

Tad giggles at Joachim.

Charity says, 'Too difficult.'

Jeannette says, 'Oh, yeah, those're fun... those're just for the clapper whatever spell it is, i think.'

Tad looks up into the sky and ponders.

Tad says to Charity, 'Not necessarily.'

Tad can do it mebbe in 3 lines

Tad flexes his bulging, impressive muscles.

Jeannette says, 'Noise.'

Charity says, 'Ok, i amend my comment, too likely to make blabbermouths drown.'

Tad says to Jeannette, 'Doesn't work underwater.'

Charity giggles.

Jeannette says to Tad, 'That's where the "you can't make it out" and other server msgs are tho... i think...'

Charity says, 'One thing we have to keep in mind is that these are the first deep underwater areas... tortuga goes 3 levels deep, most others in the world are just 1 room.'

Tad giggles at Jeannette.

Charity says, 'So i don't want to ask for things like 'you can go one room deep even if you don't have sustained breath' because that would really screw up, say, the seoni.'

Lethargio says, 'Make seoni 2 levels deep.'

Lethargio says, 'Quick fix.'

Charity chuckles politely.

Lethargio says, 'Just add a extra d room in between.'

Tad doesn't think that being able to hold your breath for 30 seconds or a minute should allow you to sit around in a one-level deep underwater room.

Joachim really thinks if you're gonna dd 200 more underwater rooms, you need to give londoners sustained breath :)

Charity says, 'There are others too, i think tudor has one, crete does but that's not an issue yet... basically, i think it'd be impolite to make them all change their stuff.'

Charity says to Joachim, 'That's not my decision to make.'

Joachim says to Charity, 'Then talk to whoevers it *is*'

Lethargio says, 'Make submarines which only londoners can use, and make it a millitary one so you shoot torpedoes, heh heh.'

Charity says, 'So, are there any other categories of stuffs we haven't covered? We've got combat and rudimentary physics... oh wait.'

Charity says, 'Did i mention that i'd like the throw skill disabled underwater?'

Tad says to Charity, 'Easy enough.'

Charity nods her agreement with Tad.

Charity says, 'But i sort of expect players to not like that.'

Lethargio says, 'Throw should be disabled if bows and guns are.'

Charity says, 'Guns are, bows arent.'

Lethargio says, 'Disable bows too then.'

Thrash looks up into the sky and ponders.

Lethargio shrugs helplessly.

Lethargio ponders a 7.62mm M14 assault rifle's existence.

Lethargio says, 'Useless.'

Jeannette says, 'No leave 'em for underwater spears and stuff.'

Shiva says, 'Ok the way i was looking at it is: I'm a mage, If I cast sust breath on myself and start running through after a particular goal underwater and between tsinking and getting lost coupled with the extra move it takes to move in direction.'

Tad says, 'Bows make sense underwater, most guns don't.'

Charity says, 'Well i look at it this way, whoever did guns had the foresight to disable guns, so there must have been a reason bows were left enabled.'

Lethargio says, 'They shouldn't fly though.'

Jeannette says, 'E'en ancient peoples learned techniques to throw specialized weapons underwater... just not normal stuff... leaving the bows works :)'

Shiva says, 'Directions other than you are likely to move, it's not going to be somewhere I go.'

Charity says to Shiva, 'Extra move is only if you're resting.'

Lethargio grumbles.

Lethargio says, 'Snipers are getting more and more disabled.'

Charity says, 'If you're 'walking' around, fighting, exploring, actively going places, it won't affect you.'

Charity says, 'Hey don't blame me, guns have always been disabled underwater.'

Charity chuckles politely.

Shiva says, 'Spear type weapons should be able to be thrown underwater.'

Shiva says, 'And excuse me if I'm a bit behind but I keep freezing.'

Tad says to Shiva, 'Not really feasable in code.'

Tad says to Shiva, 'Don't have the flags free to stick a "is_spear" one on them.'

Lethargio says, 'Just disable everything except for spearguns.'

Tad says to Lethargio, 'Ditto...'

Jeannette says, 'There's no is spearguns either... if'n you leave bows, builders can special case them if they want other underwater weapons.'

Lethargio says, 'Its easy and simple, no complaints either.'

Tad says to Lethargio, 'Uhm, no its not.'

Lethargio says to Tad, 'Oh oh, more coding stuff.'

Tad says to Lethargio, 'Unless we make an entirely new item type, which case it involves a pretty big code change.'

Tad nods his agreement with Lethargio.

Tad says to Lethargio, 'Its easy to let a whole class of whatever work, its difficult to case out particular items, unless the flag descirbing them already exists.'

Lethargio says to Tad, 'Oh.'

Tad says to Lethargio, 'Because we've got a limited number of flags, and they're mostly full.'

Lethargio says to Tad, 'Either that or enable everything.'

Charity says, 'Does the same hold true of the flags on vehicles, tad? Like AMPHIBIOUS vs BOAT?'

Charity says, 'Is there room for another flag?'

Tad says to Charity, 'Boats aren't vehicles.'

Charity says, 'Boat is a flag on vehicles... amphibious, flying, i forget the others... but boat is one of em.'

Tad says to Charity, 'But the AMPHIBIOUS part isn't really a flag, I don't think, I think its one of the values.'

Charity nods solemnly.

Charity says, 'Ok, because right now you could hop in your scuba gear and swim from the southseas to london.'

Charity would like a new value that means water_swim but not water_noswim

Tad says to Charity, 'Probably not to hard.'

Lethargio says, 'Well i mean going to southseas with a canoe is pretty unrealistic already.'

Tad says to Charity, 'I'd have to go examine that code closer, though.'

Tad nods his agreement with Lethargio.

Tad sorta agrees with leth

Charity says, 'Vehicles, underwater spells, sustatined breath skill and spell all have cosmetic problems, and i imagine we'll try to fix as many as are reasonable.'

Joachim says, 'Just make it not let you go on either, and require they have swim :)'

Tad says, 'If you can paddle a canoe there, you can prolly backstroke there.'

Charity nods her agreement with Tad.

Tad nods his agreement with Joachim.

Charity says, 'I agree as well... but boats are something not in my purview, and at the moment amphibious vehicles are.'

Charity chuckles politely.

Lethargio says to Charity, 'Hmm so scuba gear would be a vhiecle...would there be other choices?'

Tad says, 'You could prolly have a vehicle type that does nothing but provide air...'

Charity says, 'And i suspect people would be real unhappy if suddenly you needed a fly spell to get through most of the industrial world.'

Tad says to Lethargio, 'Not until object acts get done, if object acts get done.'

Lethargio says to Tad, 'Neat, so there could be vheicles with weapons on them just like the airplanes.'

Tad nods his agreement with Lethargio.

Charity says, 'I might make a snorkel that will work with roomacts, it'll let you into just one underwater room down from the surface.'

Tad says, 'All vehicles have that capablilty.'

Charity says, 'But because it would rely on roomacts, your snorkel would be useless in other areas.'

Charity says, 'Oh i had another question for folks... What do you think we should do about the fact that the drown spell fills your lungs with water? Be pretty funny to drown fish that way.'

Lethargio says to Charity, 'Um would that mean that mages can drown you in a instant?'

'The drown spell is just ordinary damage so far as i know,' Charity says.

Lethargio says, 'Oh.'

Charity says, 'But the message will look way weird when you use it to attack things with gills, not lungs.'

Charity says to Tad, 'Can you check whether the target is a swimmer and use a different message for lungs or gills?'

Tad says to Charity, 'Ruf's resistances would handle that, i think.'

Tad says to Charity, 'If he included a "water" damage type.'

Charity says, 'Don't know enough about it, i'll ask him.'

Killah says, 'May i input?'

Charity says, 'Sure.'

Killah says, 'I think warcry should be disabled unless a gill spell is implemented.. kick should do less dam because of water resistance.'

Tad is afk a moment

Killah says, 'Piercing should remain the same and underwater mobs should be made easier since skills are more limited.'

Svetlana says, 'I think you shouldn't get thirsy underwater.'

Lethargio says, 'Drink salt water will.'

Charity says, 'Those things are both more realistic... however, you need to remember that mages have some real nice underwater damage spells, and i don't want to overbalance the fighting styles.'

Killah nods solemnly.

Killah says, 'Void should work.. but flamestrike under water is redicules.'

Svetlana sits down on Toby the turtle.

Lethargio says, 'Mages would fight better underwater than snipers and such.'

Killah says, 'But then you need a new code for mages since they can only cast such and such.'

Tad says to Killah, 'Flamestrike already fails underwater.'

Charity says, 'Fire spells dont' work underwater, but there are water spells that do just as much damage.'

Svetlana says, 'Couldn't exactly chant fire spells.'

Killah says, 'Like you cannot make a fire elemental in a common room.. make it so you "Cannot cast fire here"'

Svetlana says, 'Drown is a good one.'

Tad says to Killah, 'Already works that way.'

Charity says, 'Oh and i tested already, you can make naiads underwater.'

Tad says to Charity, 'Can they swim yet?'

Tad grumbles.

Charity says, 'Crap, didn't check.'

Charity sighs.

Tad says to Charity, 'And/or hold their breath.'

Jeannette giggles at Tad.

Lethargio says, 'Salamanders can shrivle up and die underwater.'

Lethargio rolls around on the ground with laughter.

Killah says, 'Pardon my ignorance but this is my first third circle mage.'

Killah says, 'If earthquake already fails ignore this but EQ shouldnt work either.'

Charity says, 'Well folks, what do you think about disabling warcry on the same rationale as say and yell and talk, but leaving other fight skills unaltered for playability.'

Lethargio says, 'Sounds good.'

Svetlana says, 'Sounds good.'

Tad says to Charity, 'sound still carries, just gets garbled.'

Killah says, 'Make underwater warcry somthing like "So and So's eyes become piercing as he fiercely stares at the mob"'

Killah says, 'Instead of "blub blub blub.'

Charity says to Killah, 'Heh i haven't tested most of the spells underwater yet myself, but i'll be doing that, weaving light in particular shouldn't be possible.'

Charity giggles.

Killah says, 'Bullets face resistance underwater as well.. they should do less damage.. but to make up for it mobs should have less hp.'

Svetlana nods solemnly.

Tad says to Killah, 'Guns don't shoot underwater.'

Lethargio says to Killah, 'Too realistic.'

Tad says to Charity, 'So mebbe just make all warcries "a cry of fury" instead of somethin particalar :)'

Killah says, 'A) some do, B) you can shoot from above..'

Killah says, 'You shouldnt be able to draw a fish ou;of the water..'

Tad says to Killah, 'A) no they don't B) true.'

Killah says, 'With an arrow or bullet.'

Killah says to Tad, 'You've never seen a waterproof pistol?'

Charity says to Killah, 'You can, but they flop around and then expire.'

Tad says to Killah, 'In game, I meant.'

Charity giggles.

Killah says, 'Nah they dont.'

Killah says, 'If i shoot the spirit salmon, and then calm.. he wont die.'

Tad says to Killah, 'Comes down to game balance, though, If you can shoot a mob, its gotta rush.'

Tad says to Killah, 'Althouh it could be coded to take a 50hp bite out of ya and swim back down.'

Tad throws his head back and cackles with insane glee!

Killah says to Tad, 'Then you shouldnt be able to shoot a mob underwater.. which is a bitch for snipers.'

Killah says, 'And the fishing skill shoul dhave a piranha risk to it:).'

Lethargio says to Tad, 'It'll be all the same for everyone excluding that snipers can't shoot.'

Killah says, 'For my other char it will be tought because they would not be able to lure out the behemoth or other mobs.'

Charity says, 'To balance out snipers not being able to shoot, having a high perc will be VERY useful, at least in my areas.'

Killah says, 'Your areA.'

Charity says, 'Multiple... 100 rooms of underwater ind, 30 at the octopus in med, and 50 at the red sea in anc.'

Charity says, 'With about 60-75% of the mobs standard across all those areas.'

Killah says, 'Nevermind.. there is egypt too.'

Charity says, 'Oh, can anyone think of a new social that is not poke, but which basically means you poke around inside a hole or a crevice or something?'

Joachim says, 'Prod?'

Tad peers intently at Toby the turtle.

Tad says to Charity, 'That one work?'

Charity says, 'Prod! That just might work... the problem with most is that i can't use the word 'into' cause it'd look weird to poke your hand into a sword or a cabbage then.'

Charity says, 'But just prodding something would work.'

Tad still wants the rummage social

Joachim says to Tad, 'You're a coder, code it.'

Tad says to Joachim, 'Ohkay.'

Tad is a lazy coder, though.

Jeannette rummages around in the closet and comes up with a new social :)

Jeannette tickles Tad.

Tad giggles at Jeannette.

Charity giggles.

Killah wansa be an immort an' put in me area.

Charity says, 'Is there anything else about UNDERWATER that you've got ideas about that we haven't covered?'

Killah says, 'Swimming is fun.'

Killah says, 'How anout a snorkleing skill.. to allow you one down?'

Lethargio says, 'Swimming.'

Lethargio says, 'Swimming should allow you to do that instead of a new skill.'

Killah says, 'Swimming already has its use.'

Tad says to Lethargio, 'You can swim without holding your breath at all... it takes practice to be able to hold your breath for more than 30 seconds or a minnit.'

Tad says to Lethargio, 'And snorkelers usually hold their breath for multiple minutes at a time, don't they?'

Charity says, 'I'll suggest some manner of letting people go one room deep underwater without sustained breath... dunno if this would be swimming or snorkeling or whether the needs of other areas will prohibit it.'

Lethargio says, 'I can hold my breath for a minute, and i didn't practice.'

Lethargio says, 'Heh.'

Killah says, 'Snorkelers dont hold their breath.'

Tad says to Lethargio, 'But you can't hold it for 5.'

Killah says, 'They breath while they are one step underwater,'

Tad shrugs helplessly.

Lethargio says, 'No one can hold it for 5.'

Killah says, 'Not true =_'

Tad says, 'Well, 4.'

Tad giggles at Lethargio.

Lethargio says, 'The record is like 4 20 or something.'

Charity says, 'It's a problem of scale, in my areas one room down may only be a foot, in which case a snorkel would work fine... in other areas one room down is 10 feet, which you can't snorkel.'

Killah says, 'Someone did 5 05 in his bathtub.'

Tad nods his agreement with Charity.

Killah says, 'Then let it work in some areas..'

Lethargio says, 'Official record, anyhow.'

Killah says, '"This is too deep"'

Tad says to Killah, 'Then you just don't give them the underwater flag.'

Tad says to Charity, 'Would that work?'

Tad says, 'Doof, it wouldn't.'

Charity says, 'Ok wait... the ranged room stuff that ptah has in mind allows you to mark distances.'

Tad says, 'Fire spells would still work.'

Killah says, 'Don't doof me, im not a coder.'

Lethargio says to Charity, 'There should be some good places where its at 1 deep.'

Tad says to Killah, 'I"m not doofing you, I'm doofing me.'

Killah says, 'Oh, doof away.'

Charity says, 'When that goes in (no time soon) we can mark underwater rooms, and have snorkeling work with it, any era person can learn snorkeling then... but right now, we don't have that capability.'

Lethargio nods his agreement with Charity.

Killah says, 'Yahoo my idea goes in.'

Charity says to Killah, 'Now you have to play here for the next 2 years so you'll see the day.'

Charity giggles.

Killah says to Charity, 'Its been 2 so far =)'

Lethargio says to Killah, 'And if you want to see the trees go in.'

Lethargio ducks to the ground.

Tad tickles Lethargio.

Killah says, 'Should learn C just to be a coder.. but by the time i hafve it down you'll use somethign else;).'

[Chat] Charity: i'd like to thank everyone who showed up to the forum about underwater changes... you gave me some good ideas and hopefully we can get lots of this stuff coded

[Chat] Charity: a summary with conclusions will be in an upcoming LT, and (if logging worked) a log will be added to the web pages